UKM - What’s going on ? - UK

Slutty Rimmer · 26-03-2018, 21:56

I have never understood the motivation for anti-semitism and cannot see why far Left politics should ferment such sentiment, yet it appears that Cobyn’s Labour* is as susceptible to this racism as much as far right fascist politics. Why ?

Is it a case that being an ordinary drone I am so far removed from the levers of power and finance that the reality is beyond my awareness horizon ?

We even had a bout of it on here when Grassy Knollington just suddenly blurted out some vulgar rabid anti-Jewish comments. I can’t figure out why the Jewish community continually bears the cross of everyone’s paranoia about the World.

Any thoughts on the matter ?

Kind Regards,
The Fireman.

* That mural was pretty bloody anti-Semitic and very reminiscent of the propaganda posters distributed pre-War by the Nasty peoples.

posh-sub · 26-03-2018, 23:09

Anti-semitism has a long and sad history in Europe in general and this country in particular. (See Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice).

my understanding is that (in this country at least) in the middle ages - for reasons unknown to me - Jews were forbidden to join craft guilds and to practice most occupations. Consequently they had to work at the margins and developed a speciality in money-lending. Including to the Crown. One of the old kings (can't remember - look it up) found it convenient to drive them out of the country thus solving his financial problems. Similar reasoning tends to lie behind much anti-semitism.

Peace & Love
poshie

Des · 27-03-2018, 08:34

I think that what we are seeing mostly these days is not anti-Semitism. The Israeli state treats the Palestinians terribly. Stealing their land, building their own settlements on their land, and denying them their rights. The rest of the world (with one major exception) condemns such behaviour.

Any criticism of ]srael always brings the response of anti-Semitism. There is well orchestrated pressure brought to bear on anyone who dares to speak out about the inhuman Israeli methods. Their is little corresponding vocal support for the downtrodden Palestinians due to such pressure.

The major exception is of course the USA. The high percentage of Jewish support in influential places guarantees that the bullying tactics continue. Trump has gone a step further in relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. He has never been one to worry too much about morality when there are votes/support to be gathered from dubious quarters.

Given the US support, which intimidates whole countries into acquiescence, I despair that there will ever be justice.

Slutty Rimmer · 29-03-2018, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogden McNit

Many of Socialism's greatest thinkers and figures have been Jewish. It's nonsense to suggest far left politics ferments anti-semitism as much as far right politics IMO.

The left tends to support the Palestinian cause and oppose the occupation. As Des says in his post, this is not seen as remotely controversial anywhere in the world apart from the US, and to a lesser extent the UK, where there is a deliberate ploy to conflate legitimate criticism of an oppressive state with anti-semitism, especially when there are local elections coming up.

Don't fall for it.

The timing of the protests may have been deliberately conspired to coincide with the local elections, but it seems most incredible that Labour MP’s supporting the accusations of anti-semitism such as Luciana Berger and David Lammy would deliberately sabotage the Party’s electoral chances. Reading more into the back story of the murals and the subsequent accusations they do appear legitimate. Lord Robert Winston shares the sentiment that JC is not fit to be leader because of his reluctance to tackle the issue of endemic anti-semitic racism within the Labour Party.

I can see how the anti-capitalist and anti-Zionist ideology of the far left Momentum thinker can easily be mutated into anti-semitism, especially if the likes of No6 are out there to gullibly snap at the lure. It’s dog whistle bigotry. This Momentum movement is beginning to look a very shady and very unsavoury direction of travel in which to move those of us wanting better from politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogden McNit

The 'far left' in this country has a long and proud history of standing up to anti-semitism. When Mosley's Fascists wanted to march through London, the police and the authorities let him, it was up to the far left to stop them;

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/...efarright.past

And they'd be the first ones to defend them again if necessary.

A pre-war and pre-Israel defence of Jews by the socialists of the day is little more than a character witness, one that can hardly be carried seamlessly by today’s socialists as defence in the current paranoid political landscape. It is more than a week ago, which is a long time in politics.

Kind Regards,
The Fireman.

Slutty Rimmer · 30-03-2018, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogden McNit

The current attempt from rattled Tories to paint them as neo-fascists is both desperate and disgusting, and I hope the British media have the courage to challenge Sajid Javid to repeat his slurs outside of Parliament.

From the news and views I’ve been listening to I have not heard any slurs from the Conservatives. They have remained remarkably quiet on the issue because most of the talking and accusing has been by Labour Party members, Labour MP’s, Labour Lords and Baronesses, and the Jewish community. Please enlighten me about these slurs, what has he been saying exactly that is beyond what the Labour lads and lasses have been saying themselves ?

Trying to cast this as an electoral ploy by the opposition parties just muddies the waters and kicks the anti-semitic can further down the Labour road, thus exacerbating the racism. Some Labour MP’s get this (at risk of being vilified) with calls of ‘enough is enough’, whilst others for some reason don’t. The denial then perpetuates the anti-semitism.

I don’t see this as a party political issue. You can’t blame the government for everything, that would be paranoid.

Kind Regards,
The Fireman.

Slutty Rimmer · 30-03-2018, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogden McNit

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8280601.html

This explains why I hadn’t been aware of his views. They were comments on how Momentum activists were behaving like thugs in local government, which has absolutely nothing to do with the anti-semitic racism issue. Conflating his remarks looks a bit of a desperate attempt to misdirect the accusations.

As I say, I really don’t think this is party political, it is internal to Labour. Which is what I couldn’t originally understand.

Kind Regards,
The Fireman.

ex nihilo · 06-04-2018, 09:31

I've heard nothing through the grapevine...

26-03-2018, 21:56	#1
Slutty Rimmer Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: In t'North of t'Country Posts: 5,473 Reputation: 160	What’s going on ? I have never understood the motivation for anti-semitism and cannot see why far Left politics should ferment such sentiment, yet it appears that Cobyn’s Labour* is as susceptible to this racism as much as far right fascist politics. Why ? Is it a case that being an ordinary drone I am so far removed from the levers of power and finance that the reality is beyond my awareness horizon ? We even had a bout of it on here when Grassy Knollington just suddenly blurted out some vulgar rabid anti-Jewish comments. I can’t figure out why the Jewish community continually bears the cross of everyone’s paranoia about the World. Any thoughts on the matter ? Kind Regards, The Fireman. * That mural was pretty bloody anti-Semitic and very reminiscent of the propaganda posters distributed pre-War by the Nasty peoples. __________________ Light, Life, Love. 🌈 Trans-women are not women…they are men with a mental disorder. Protect women. “You [Rimmer] are truly a master amongst masters...” Ex Nihilo, UK-M. “Freedom only to speak inoffensivley is not worth having.” https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...e-judgment.pdf “If a man can be a woman, there's no such thing as a woman.” “LGBTQIA2S+ ? Everything after the B is either fake, fashion, or illness.” Last edited by Slutty Rimmer; 14-09-2018 at 06:31.

06-04-2018, 09:31	#7
ex nihilo Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6,483 Reputation: 31	What's going on?... I've heard nothing through the grapevine... __________________ “We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be.”

26-03-2018, 23:09	#2
posh-sub Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Brighton Posts: 979 Reputation: 108	Anti-semitism has a long and sad history in Europe in general and this country in particular. (See Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice). my understanding is that (in this country at least) in the middle ages - for reasons unknown to me - Jews were forbidden to join craft guilds and to practice most occupations. Consequently they had to work at the margins and developed a speciality in money-lending. Including to the Crown. One of the old kings (can't remember - look it up) found it convenient to drive them out of the country thus solving his financial problems. Similar reasoning tends to lie behind much anti-semitism. Peace & Love poshie

27-03-2018, 08:34	#3
Des Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 241 Reputation: 10	I think that what we are seeing mostly these days is not anti-Semitism. The Israeli state treats the Palestinians terribly. Stealing their land, building their own settlements on their land, and denying them their rights. The rest of the world (with one major exception) condemns such behaviour. Any criticism of ]srael always brings the response of anti-Semitism. There is well orchestrated pressure brought to bear on anyone who dares to speak out about the inhuman Israeli methods. Their is little corresponding vocal support for the downtrodden Palestinians due to such pressure. The major exception is of course the USA. The high percentage of Jewish support in influential places guarantees that the bullying tactics continue. Trump has gone a step further in relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem. He has never been one to worry too much about morality when there are votes/support to be gathered from dubious quarters. Given the US support, which intimidates whole countries into acquiescence, I despair that there will ever be justice.