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Old 19-10-2017, 11:48   #11
Slutty Rimmer
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Originally Posted by ex nihilo View Post
It’s a classic example of quid pro quo harassment. Someone in a position of power believing they are entitled to sexual favours in exchange for career enhancement. Not sure that the media driven bandwagon effect is all that helpful because the larger it gets the greater the likelihood that spurious accusations will have a deleterious effect on the genuine ones...
Yes, it reveals another form of the bung culture such that it becomes increasingly difficult to select the wheat from the chaff, and devalues any genuine accusations. The social-media storm can actually aid a defence by creating a useful smoke screen and jeopardise the chance of an unbiased trial, given that it has supplanted the presumption of innocence with one of guilt. The sisters are not really doing it for themselves here, especially (as you say) when 'quid pro quo' becomes conflated with rape.

Almost impossible to unpick I would imagine.

Imagine: How would the profession and public treat a woman who said "Yes, I consented to having sex with him in order to get a big break and go on to achieve my fame and wealth" ? Would she be seen as a single strong minded individual achiever who played the system and won, or a whore climbing over her feminist sisters in the Hollywood crab bucket ? The reflected social attitude may well shape what she does or does not state.

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Old 20-10-2017, 17:39   #12
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The main issue here is surely that harassment of women is still rife in an age when it should be completely unacceptable. Debate elsewhere is focussed on how to stamp it out, not who might be lying, who else might come 'out of the woodwork', and when and how victims should come forward. Why is there so much cynicism on here, of all places?

Good to see social media has played an absolute blinder this week. This 'me too' hashtag has gone viral and has now been tweeted over one million times since last Sunday, by both men and women.
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Old 20-10-2017, 18:29   #13
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Originally Posted by Ogden McNitt View Post
The main issue here is surely that harassment of women is still rife in an age when it should be completely unacceptable. Debate elsewhere is focussed on how to stamp it out, not who might be lying, who else might come 'out of the woodwork', and when and how victims should come forward. Why is there so much cynicism on here, of all places?

Good to see social media has played an absolute blinder this week. This 'me too' hashtag has gone viral and has now been tweeted over one million times since last Sunday, by both men and women.
I am uneasy with the social-media attempts to affect a sea change in public attitude conflicting with the individual rule of law. They should be two separate things. If there is no conviction then by definition there will be no justice, hence my original post.

Me too maybe be better tagged #Myaccusation and has the potential to create as well as uncover. Would Buddha ask you to believe anything without evidence ?

The French hashtag #balancetonporc 'Squeal on your Pig' is particularly worrying and potentially libellous*. I see no reason to rejoice whilst witnessing the return of medieval mob rule and witch hunts. If you want to re-watch a good film this weekend then you could do much worse than the 1996 film adaptation of Arthur Miller's The Crucible. I have no idea who produced it, or what was necessary to secure a role in it, but it is a powerful story. Well acted too**.

You call it cynicism, I call it a healthy wariness of media hysteria.

Regards,
The Fireman.

* One of the harassment charges is 'talking too closely to a woman' and 'following a woman down a street'. Are we due an harassment App which measures duration and proximity of surrounding women, prior to advising on better positioning or suggesting an alternative route to the shops ?

** Actually, I should follow my own advice. I remember being blown away by the sheer intense power of the story and still consider it one of my top 10 films. None of my peers of the time seemed to pick up on the magnitude and timeless relevance of the allegory. Nothing scares me quite as much as a single minded crowd.
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Old 20-10-2017, 18:56   #14
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For what its worth , having lived in both the U.K. and U.S.A I knew a couple of women in the U.S. who told me they had been raped . I have never been told that by any English women .

Attitudes are much more predatory across the pond .
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Old 20-10-2017, 20:55   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slutty Rimmer View Post
I am uneasy with the social-media attempts to affect a sea change in public attitude conflicting with the individual rule of law. They should be two separate things. If there is no conviction then by definition there will be no justice, hence my original post.

Me too maybe be better tagged #Myaccusation and has the potential to create as well as uncover. Would Buddha ask you to believe anything without evidence ?
The volume of women speaking out against Weinstein is becoming almost Savile-esque. And still no strenuous denials of the sexual harassment allegations.

Yes, it's possible that the following concocted the whole story and he is completely innocent;

Amber Anderson, actress
Lysette Anthony, actress
Asia Argento, actress and director
Rosanna Arquette, actress
Jessica Barth, actress
Kate Beckinsale, actress
Zoë Brock, model
Juls Bindi, massage therapist
Liza Campbell, writer and artist
Marisa Coughlan, actress and writer
Emma de Caunes, actress
Florence Darel, actress
Cara Delevingne, actress and model
Sophie Dix, actress
Dawn Dunning, actress
Lina Esco, actress and director
Alice Evans, actress
Lucia Evans, formerly Lucia Stoller, actress
Angie Everhart, model and actress
Claire Forlani, actress
Romola Garai, actress
Louisette Geiss, screenwriter and actress
Louise Godbold, nonprofit organization director
Judith Godrèche, actress
Trish Goff, former model, actress, and real estate broker
Heather Graham, actress
Eva Green, actress
Ambra Gutierrez, formerly Ambra Battilana, model
Lena Headey, actress
Lauren Holly, actress
Jessica Hynes, actress
Angelina Jolie, actress and director
Ashley Judd, actress
Minka Kelly, actress
Katherine Kendall, actress
Mia Kirshner, actress
Myleene Klass, singer and model
Laura Madden, Weinstein employee
Sarah Ann Masse, actress, comedian, and writer
Rose McGowan, actress
Natalie Mendoza, actress
Katya Mtsitouridze, TV hostess
Emily Nestor, Weinstein employee
Jennifer Siebel Newsom, documentary filmmaker and actress
Lupita Nyong'o, actress
Lauren O'Connor, former employee
Gwyneth Paltrow, actress
Samantha Panagrosso, former model
Zelda Perkins, Weinstein employee
Vu Thu Phuong, actress and businesswoman
Sarah Polley, actress, writer, and director
Tomi-Ann Roberts, professor of psychology
Lisa Rose, Miramax employee
Erika Rosenbaum, actress
Melissa Sagemiller, actress
Léa Seydoux, actress
Lauren Sivan, journalist
Chelsea Skidmore, actress and comedian
Mira Sorvino, actress
Tara Subkoff, actress
Paula Wachowiak, Weinstein employee
Paula Williams, actress
Sean Young, actress

But I can also sort of understand why Ms Josephine Public might be jumping to hasty conclusions and be a bit angry about it, especially if it chimes with her own experiences in everyday life. Maybe hers is at least a voice worth listening to in the current debate? Is a sea change in public attitude such a bad thing?

The point of the #metoo tweets were not to accuse individuals, rather to show solidarity with those who have suffered sexual harassment. Again, I accept that it's possible some could be lying.

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Old 21-10-2017, 04:38   #16
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Interesting to note how some men react to different types of sexual abuse.

Barstool, when it is Asian men doing it;

The problem is obviously cultural, the child sex problem in the muslim world is massive, please trust me when I tell you Rotherham is the smallest tip of a very large iceberg.

http://uk-mistresses.com/vBulletin/s...5&postcount=31

Barstool, when it's alleged powerful white men are doing it;

I wonder how many `come ons` were actually launched by aspiring actresses trying to improve their profile.
Maybe, like so many other scenarios, people are coming out of the woodwork trying to make something for themselves.


http://uk-mistresses.com/vBulletin/s...32&postcount=6
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Old 21-10-2017, 06:43   #17
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This whole saga rings similar bells to me as Savile a few years ago in the UK; people around the individual knew what he was up to or at least had a good idea butt for what ever reason did nothing about it at the time. Then someone stands up and makes an allegation and then there is tsunami of further allegations.

The issue the Law enforcement agencies and ultimately the Courts have to prove the allegations to be factual.

I believe in the recent Hollywood allegations there is, like Savile, substance in the allegations.
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Old 21-10-2017, 07:30   #18
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I believe in the recent Hollywood allegations there is, like Savile, substance in the allegations.
#metoo. Quite strongly in both cases.

Neither has been charged with anything though, never mind convicted.
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Old 21-10-2017, 07:47   #19
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Oh absolutely. There has to be substance in the allegations.
Rightly so the man needs to be investigated.

But so many women NOW coming forward.
Why Now.
Why this late.
Why.

The answer of course may simply be a case of one woman being strong enough to stand up and talk about it. The others then following.
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Old 21-10-2017, 08:12   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reefknot View Post
I believe in the recent Hollywood allegations there is, like Savile, substance in the allegations.
This is the law we are talking about not a religion. We are not meant to believe anything until factual evidence is presented in a considered and controlled manner...a court of law.

However, if without any knowing detail, you and I and the rest of the World start believing in guilt by repetition of accusation then the man gets no fair trial. In this situation his absence and silence in the midst of the growing social-media storm may well be assisting his chances of acquittal. Clever as well as powerful, I wonder if the two are connected ?

There is danger in numbers, and so I prefer to admit that sat here on the other side of the Atlantic, having not the slightest connection with (nor care for) the Hollywood bubble, and spending most of my life too shy to talk to woman let alone abuse one, the best that can be said is 'I just don't know'.

This I think will be true of most commentators who believe his guilt is nailed on, without detail or defence.

Kind Regards,
The Fireman.
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https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/...e-judgment.pdf

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“LGBTQIA2S+ ? Everything after the B is either fake, fashion, or illness.”
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