Your views on this tricky subject [Archive] - UK

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Delighted

21-10-2009, 18:16

Well tomorrow as I am sure most of you will know, the BNP will be in attendance at Question time.

Now I know this is a tricky and difficult subject, and please dont think I am in support of the BNP myself. I have in the past (on the old ukm) been called a racist by two very respected Mistresses, even although they do not know me personally. If they did, they would know that I am myself afro carib from Brazil, so it was for me quite amusing at the time, anyway .......

The siinn fein (spelling) were on such programes even when their leaders were openly little more then mouth pieces for the IRA, troops and Police, innocent civillians were being murdered by the IRA yet the government even allowed these people to become MPs! so in that context, why should the BNP not be given a voice?

Personaly I loathe racism of any sort, I have been a victim of it in the Army and in public places more times then I can count over the years, but I support the right for any polotical party to voice its views publically, hopefully they will do more harm to themselfs with the nasty Mr G being questioned I expect rather rigoursly?

And lets not forget that very respected members of Parliment have in the past been well known for their views on how many immigrants and illegals stream into this great country. So what do you think, should the BNP be given the chance to spout their poison and racist views, or should they be silenced by the media (like Gerry Adams was many years ago, allbeit an actor could be shown reciting word for word what Mr Adams was saying)

Lets keep it civil please.

Delighted

Lisal

21-10-2009, 18:29

Personally (while I abhor their views) I do think they should be given airtime and be allowed on Question Time tonight

If for no other reason (and I can think of a few more) than it is more than likely that Nick Griffin will come out badly and demonstrate to people just what they would be voting for. I haven't actually seen his recent blog but was reading reports of it in the papers today and he seems to have messed up a bit there

Lady Anna

21-10-2009, 18:31

I think they should be given time as well.

bgx

21-10-2009, 18:43

Give them airtime. If you start banning them from the airwaves you will get people feeling sorry for them and they could attract more voters.
The only way is for all parties, no matter what views they hold and whether or not you agree with them to have an equal chance to put them forward.

:shooting::tumbleweed:

dashwood

21-10-2009, 19:11

I wasn't exactly chuffed to hear the licence payers are funding a program that may well further the cause of the BNP, however I thought at the very least Nick Griffin would show his true colours and maybe people may start to realise just what the BNP stands for. I was even less pleased to read today that the BBC have allowed a certain number of BNP supporters into the debate, thus ensuring Griffin will not be seen by millions as an isolated extremist but as a man with supporters. This makes his appearance in my mind a far more dangerous proposition on a program that's set to be huge in the ratings.

The world's going through a frightening time, global economic meltdown, mass unemployment and all the misery goes with it. The BNP provide a powerful shot of nationalism at a time when vunerable people need something to cling too. The BNP also provide an easy scapegoat for our woes....

I wonder if this is starting to sound like Germany in the early 1930's? No one dreamt what was to follow the rise of the far right back then, but we do have the advantage of hindsight. The BNP isn't alone in Europe either, where the far right has been on the rise for at least a decade or more.

I'm all for freedom of speech but I think it's fair to say if the BNP got into a position of power freedom of speech wouldn't be top of their agenda. This place wouldn't exist for starters....

Just a thought or two.

von Doom

21-10-2009, 20:15

The Dispatches show several years ago Young, Nazi and Proud (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7842826632184074561&ei=iGbfSvfOBKCM2wKFxoGnDA&q=young+nazi+proud&hl=en#) did a tremendous job in peeling back the false respectable veneer they try to coat themselves with. They have two MEPs, so obviously they have managed to seduce a small percentage of the population into believing they are misunderstood. I have high hopes that Question Time will show them at best to be a one issue party and completely out of their depth, and at worst vile hate-filled fascists.

reefknot

21-10-2009, 20:21

I have mixed views part of me takes the Maggie Thatcher stance starve them of publicity my other view is they are more likely to be expert marksmen at self foot shooting.

Druid

22-10-2009, 07:40

Phoenix

22-10-2009, 07:42

:whs: X :whs:

briunz

22-10-2009, 08:45

:whs: X :whs:

Agreed!!!

cerberus

22-10-2009, 10:21

stdavid

22-10-2009, 14:46

Put them on air, everyone who watches have thier own thoughts on the party and this is not likely to change by them being on q t!

mikeyports

22-10-2009, 14:54

dashwood

22-10-2009, 14:58

:whs:

Theres really nothing I can add to that. Very well worded!

C

I agree, freedom of speech is a core value of our society and we have to protect that...

However back in the 80's French TV gave Le Pen's far right party similar exposure. This is credited for catapulting what was a small group of fanatics into mainstream politics. Given that the BNP constitution is in breach of human rights for banning non-whites from its membership should they be given a platform to discuss their views? As Griffin told The Times on the subject of Question Time...

"I thank the political class and their allies for being so stupid. The huge furore that the political class has created around it clearly gives us a whole new level of public recognition."

Once Nick Griffin and the BNP are out of the box there's no putting them back and pretending this never happened.

Delighted

22-10-2009, 15:02

The fact that we all agree the BNP should be given a voice on such a respected political platform as 'Question time.. this evening at 22.35' .. :old_butbut: is testament i think to the open minds of us all here. I am not particularly happy that a party who operate an illegal policy i.e excluding any ethnics from joining... even if any would want too, which i very much doubt, are treated as an above board and legal political party, nor do they have anything as Dashwood said of an agenda for the country as a whole were they to be given a shot at running it. Theres a scary thought, Mr Griffin as PM :nono1:

The French far right led by Le Penn and other European extremist groups will all be watching the BNP progress or lack of progress in the UK very closely after this evenings show. i wonder how long before the National Front, the Black Panthers and other racist groups now demand to be given a voice on the nations flagship tv station, paid for by the nations public?

Thanks for the replys, its great to see some solidarity :blondblush:

Delighted

Delighted

22-10-2009, 15:05

Dashwood you posted just as i was posting, and we appear to have covered the same ground. You however say it with much greater finnese then i mannaged to accomplish. so Here here Dashwood, i agree with you. :old_thumbs-up:

Delighted

posh-sub

22-10-2009, 15:28

The value that an individual (or a state) places upon free speech is most accurately measured by their tolerance of the airing of views that they personally find abhorrent.

Either we have freedom of speech or we don't. There can be no compromise.

Agreeing with Druid is an interesting and unusual experience for me ...:blondblush:

It is rather odd to see all those good folk who bang on about freedom of speech suddenly deciding it should not extend to the BNP.

It is to be hoped that NG will show up his / his party's true face under cross examination. He has made a good start by 'reminding' our Military leaders 'what happened to Hitler's Generals'.

Peace & Love
poshie

scapey

22-10-2009, 15:43

stripthewillow

22-10-2009, 16:01

Of course they should be there

What will be interesting is to see the behaviour of the numpties outside and, no doubt, inside the BBC.

Miss Anna

22-10-2009, 16:11

I agree, freedom of speech is a core value of our society and we have to protect that...

However back in the 80's French TV gave Le Pen's far right party similar exposure. This is credited for catapulting what was a small group of fanatics into mainstream politics. Given that the BNP constitution is in breach of human rights for banning non-whites from its membership should they be given a platform to discuss their views? As Griffin told The Times on the subject of Question Time...

"I thank the political class and their allies for being so stupid. The huge furore that the political class has created around it clearly gives us a whole new level of public recognition."

Once Nick Griffin and the BNP are out of the box there's no putting them back and pretending this never happened.

Good post Dashwood. Let us not forget that Le Pen came second in the 2002 run for the French presidency....

Another point to consider is that wherever the BNP gains a hearing, it gives racists more confidence and inevitably leads to an increase in racist attacks and harassment.

I hope I am proven wrong....

subtle

22-10-2009, 16:37

I wonder how much editing of QT happens between recording & screening - e.g. closeups of angry audience, etc.? Free speech is a marvellous thing, when it actually takes place.

ETA Why do my posts have this big empty space underneath?

Druid

22-10-2009, 19:03

Agreeing with Druid is an interesting and unusual experience for me ...

Please don't do it again. I find it most unsettling.

I completely agree.

Same goes for you.

:nono1:

scapey

22-10-2009, 19:09

Please don't do it again. I find it most unsettling.

Same goes for you.

:nono1:

Oh go on ya luvvvvvvvvvvved the momment of fame

Delighted

22-10-2009, 19:23

I wonder how much editing of QT happens between recording & screening - e.g. closeups of angry audience, etc.? Free speech is a marvellous thing, when it actually takes place.

Well Auntie says this on her web site...
In recent months, Question Time has been recorded only an hour or so before its 10.35pm screening time, but the schedule was brought forward to cope with potential problems.

Audience members were allowed to enter the BBC premises at 5pm and filming started at 6pm, giving the producers time to edit any unsuitable footage.....

Watching BBC news 24 at the moment, theres quite a lot of activity with anti facist demonstrators, shame really as its all playing right into the BNPs hand. i doubt if Mr Griffin could have hoped for a better outcome thus far!
Just to add that the recording of QT has now finished, editted version coming to your screens shortly :)

Delighted

von Doom

22-10-2009, 19:48

The Sun 'journo' David Wooding just tweeted

"Griffin on Question Time all over. He's left. Worth watching. He gets an absolute pasting"

Sounds promising!

dashwood

23-10-2009, 15:56

For those who didn't catch QT here's a quick rundown of the important points...:spoton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

Miss Anna

23-10-2009, 16:43

This thread strikes me as a thread Graham would have loved to contribute to.
Freedom of speech, current affairs, fascism, etc. ... he would have been in his element.
He is badly missed :(

reefknot

23-10-2009, 18:11

This thread strikes me as a thread Graham would have loved to contribute to.
Freedom of speech, current affairs, fascism, etc. ... he would have been in his element.
He is badly missed :(

Yes his views on this are sorely missed.

I do like the Independents headlines Feed the oxygen of publicity ......... and they choked.

Miss Anna

23-10-2009, 19:04

For those who didn't catch QT here's a quick rundown of the important points...:spoton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAvkFS_cgk

Brilliant, love it ! :spoton: